The Apparition Of Chapter One

Who Is The Apparition At Patmos ?

 

"I was in the spirit on the Lord's day and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, saying: What thou seest, write in a book and send to the seven churches which are in Asia:  to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Pergamus and to Thyatira and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to Laodicea" (verses 10-11). The voice he heard, "as of a trumpet", came from behind him, as if preceding him, as a father might a son.

 

This 'great voice' is the same who says: "Come up hither, and I will shew thee the things which must be done hereafter" (Apoc. 4:1). Afterwards, the first sight given to St. John was of "a throne set in heaven, and upon the throne one sitting" (Apoc. 4:2).

 

"And I turned to see the voice that spoke with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks:  And in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks, one like to the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the feet, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle" (verses 12-13). The seven golden candlesticks are the seven churches (verse 20) of which our visitor is in the midst; it is not hard to see in this the "Patron of the Universal Church" which is St. Joseph's title. The symbolism applies just as well to Our Lord Himself; but the point is, in these early years, Heaven did not wish confusion to result by too early a revelation of the virtues of the other two members of the Holy Family.

 

It is noteworthy that St. John did not identify the apparition as Our Lord, but only as "one like to the Son of man". It is possible he may not recognize Our Lord appearing in glory, but that is less likely than that he simply saw someone who bore a resemblance. In any case, it was not St. Joseph's time, at the beginning, other than to silently do his duty as he did. His time comes at the end, and so he shows the Apostle what is to happen then.

The next three verses describe his appearance, 'in glory'; St. John, having seen him, "fell at his feet as dead". Then the apparition laid his right hand upon him, and said, "Fear not.  I am the First and the Last, and alive, and was dead.  And behold I am living for ever and ever and have the keys of death and of hell" (verses 17-18). St. Joseph is "the least of the Holy Family, but he is its Head", which can be expressed as "the first and the last". Given that Our Lady was Assumed into Heaven at the end of Her life here, we may speculate that a similar privilege was bestowed upon this 'Holy Father', as St. Joseph had never sinned either. But unlike Our Lady, who is the Immaculate Conception, St. Joseph did indeed have the 'mark' of Original Sin, and yet did not sin. This happened only once.

 

As for "having the keys of death and of hell", which cannot be confused with the Apostolic Keys, it is suspected that he possesses them in his capacity as head of the Holy Family. Piously known also as "the just", he may be holding them until the Judgement as that Last Day is unknown to all; even Our Lord professed not to know it; but the Father alone knows (Matt. 24: 36).

 

It may be so that he holds these keys as a consequence of his role in Apocalypse, in which the book of life is unsealed, which is the main concern of the last book. He speaks with the same Truth as Our Lord, which is the "sharp two edged sword" (verse 16). Who was it, then, who gave the book, "sealed with seven seals", to the Lamb ? (Apoc. 5:1-7).[1]

Finally St. John is told that the "seven stars" seen in the visitor's right hand are the angels (or the bishops, or in some way the representatives) of the seven churches; and the "seven candlesticks are the seven churches" (verse 20). He wrote his Apocalypse "about 64 years after the Ascension"; the Pope at the time was probably have been either St. Clement I (88-97) or St. Evaristus (97-105); or else there was an interregnum at the time. But whatever the reason may be, this was not addressed to him by the apparition. It was to the Church as a whole which existed in his time, and through the centuries eventually, to the remnant Church which still exists today, without a pope. That is why the Apocalypse was not addressed to the pope.

[Aug.10/26 addendum. New revision Aug.30/26 after footnotes]

 

There are other ways to distinguish St. John's Visitor from Our Lord. In the preamble, our visionary announces that the message is from God (Apoc. 1:4-8): "Grace be unto you...from him that is and that was and that is to come: and from the seven spirits which are before his throne...and hath made us a kingdom, and priests to God and his Father...I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end, saith the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty".

It could not be more clear of Whom St. John is speaking up to this point. But afterwards, when the Visitor arrives, he is not identified by St. John as Our Lord, but "one like to the Son of man"; who then identifies himself as "the First and the Last" which differs from the previous; this is to distinguish the two and yet strongly imply a direct relation. He then says he is "alive, and was dead" which is a curious way to speak of his being raised up. Our Lord Resurrected; Our Lady was Assumed; and what of St. Joseph, the Head of such a Holy Family ? But the curious ordering of the words is the reverse of "died, and rose again" which is again to distinguish, yet imply a direct relation between Our Lord and the Apparition of Apocalypse chapter one.

The Visitor then declares "behold I am living for ever and ever and have the keys of death and of hell"; that Our Lord is living eternally was already known to St. John but the Visitor, who is "like to" Him but is not, had to announce the same thing to St. John (who was aware of Our Lady's Assumption but otherwise whom ?). Then we are told that the Visitor has "the keys of death and of hell". These are to be distinguished from the Apostolic Keys, which, given to Peter, 'bind and loose' and earth and is ratified in Heaven. Our Lord Himself does not need such keys; but they represent certain authority that He delegates as He will; this is represented, in Peter, with the Apostolic Keys. These other keys we believe are delegated to the office of St. Joseph, which is inferred from St. John's description of the Visitor. We observe that although those who hold the office of the papacy are called "The Holy Father", who is the Head of the Church in the world, the popes are yet "of the brethren" of Our Lord and all the faithful:

22:8. And I, John, who have heard and seen these things. And, after I had heard and seen, I fell down to adore before the feet of the angel who shewed me the things.

22:9. And he said to me: See thou do it not. For I am thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren the prophets and of them that keep the words of the prophecy of this book. Adore God.

Though St. Joseph is 'of the brethren' like everyone else, he is the only one whom Our Lord can properly call "Father" according to his station in the world. And it seems to us the office of the papacy is mysteriously linked to him. As the popes come from the children of the Church and yet are the Holy Father, on some level also is St. Joseph, one of the children of God and yet also the (reputed) Father of Our Lord. Everyone is begotten by men and born of women, save Our Lord (the only begotten Son of the Father); but the real creator is God, Who creates all as souls clothed with the body.

 

Addendums Dec.06/25, Mar.29/26

 

St. Joseph is 'He, that sitteth on the throne' and we consider that we have sufficient reason for saying it is so. First of all, it does not make him God the Father. In the vision of St. John, the honour paid to 'he, that sitteth on the throne', is comparable to the honour paid to the Pope. It is not due to the particular man on the Chair of St. Peter so much as the Office which he represents. The throne represents the office of The Father, or as it may be called, the office of the Holy Father.

 

The papacy is based in some way upon the office of St. Joseph in his life with the Holy Family. St. Peter was the first to recognize Our Lord for Who He is on Faith whereas St. Joseph knew from the beginning. This relationship can be explored further at another time.

Someone sits upon the throne. And "from the throne proceeded lightnings, and voices, and thunders; and there were seven lamps burning before the throne, which are the seven spirits of God" (Apoc. 4:5). All these 'proceed from the throne' as it, and its occupant, represent in some way the will of the Father.

And the four living creatures are also "in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne" representing the Mother of God's relation to both God and Her earthly spouse, St. Joseph, since it is he who 'sitteth on the throne'.

The Holy Family is also to be found, complete, in Apocalypse:

"And I saw: and behold in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the ancients, a Lamb standing as it were slain, having seven horns and seven eyes: which are the seven Spirits of God, sent forth into all the earth" (Apoc. 5:6).

The Lamb and the Merits of His Passion, Death, and Resurrection are the foundation of St. Joseph's office and his sanctity (the throne upon which he sits), Our Lady's preservation from original sin and Her Divine Maternity (the four living creatures); and also of the ancients, which here may represent the communion of saints and/or the Old Testament figures. The Lamb is 'in the midst' of all of these, but the ancients are separated from the first two (the throne and the four living creatures) as it is the Holy Family first, followed by all the figures of the history of salvation. So the Lamb is firstly in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures. There is the Holy Family in Apocalypse.

St. Joseph's status ought to be given consideration for a dogmatic definition in the future.

 

Mar.29/26

 

When St. John was at the Cross with Our Lord Crucified and His Most Holy Mother:

 

"When Jesus therefore had seen his mother and the disciple standing whom he loved, he saith to his mother:  Woman, behold thy son. After that, he saith to the disciple:  Behold thy mother.  And from that hour, the disciple took her to his own" (John 19:26-27).

Given that Our Lord gave to His disciple His own Mother when He hung upon the Cross, is there not an implication for St. Joseph ? We think, therefore, that it is even more appropriate that St. Joseph be the one to appear to St. John at Patmos as recorded in chapter one of Apocalypse (if it is indeed him - this will be confirmed or not at some point). St. Joseph here represents not only his fatherhood as executed in the capacity as Head of the Holy Father, but he represents the Father of the Holy Trinity in more than a way merely symbolic.

This article about St. Joseph may also be of interest. In a sense, he was the first Head of the Church, represented by the Holy Family: St Joseph and the Church – Mgr Guérard des Lauriers

 

Footnotes / Additional Details

 

1.  The Lamb "standing as it were slain" (Apoc. 5:6) clearly represents Our Lord, and "the seven lamps burning before the throne, which are the seven spirits of God" (Apoc. 4:5) might represent the Holy Spirit in some way. It is interesting that none of the three Persons of the Holy Trinity are represented directly. Our Lord appears as the Lamb as was His time on earth; the Holy Spirit might be represented by the seven virtues which in turn might be the seven spirits before the throne. In a sense, the four living creatures, signifying the Blessed Virgin in the Marian dogmas, also represent Him; as Mary is of the Holy Family closest in nature to the Holy Spirit. [*Edit: Not in the nature of essence, as Our Lord and the Holy Spirit, being two of the Persons of the Holy Trinity; but of the nature of particular quality or spirt, regarding Her relation to the Holy Family and its parallel relation to the Trinity.*]

 

Concerning he who is on the throne, the Haydock commentary states (Apoc. 4:2): " I was in the spirit, rapt as it were in an ecstacy into heaven, and saw a throne, and one sitting, representing God the Father. (Witham)". So whomever is on the throne represents the Father.

Nevertheless, at the end of the revelations, when the apostle "fell down to adore" before the feet of "the angel" (as St John referred to him), he was told: "See thou do it not: for I am thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them that keep the words of the prophecy of this book. Adore God" (Apoc. 22:8-9).

 

* In Daniel 10:5-8 the prophet sees a vision of someone who in some details resembles the apparition of Apocalypse chapter one. The significance of this is not known:

5.  And I lifted up my eyes, and I saw: and behold a man clothed in linen, and his loins were girded with the finest gold:

6.  And his body was like the chrysolite, and his face as the appearance of lightning, and his eyes as a burning lamp: and his arms, and all downward even to the feet, like in appearance to glittering brass: and the voice of his word like the voice of a multitude.

7.  And I Daniel alone saw the vision: for the men that were with me saw it not: but an exceeding great terror fell upon them, and they fled away, and hid themselves.

 

8.  And I being left alone saw this great vision: and there remained no strength in me, and the appearance of my countenance was changed in me, and I fainted away, and retained no strength.

[Aug.30/26]  St. John’s Apparition And Other Persons In Apocalypse

Given that “he, who sitteth on the throne” is traditionally understood to be the Father, it is not with surety that we identify him with St. Joseph. Our Saint represents the Father in his role in the Holy Family, but how far does this go ? The explanation is already given, but there is another angle to consider:

The apparition (as we will call him for the present) of the first chapter spoke to St. John again afterwards, saying “Come up hither, and I will shew thee the things which must be done hereafter” (Apoc. 4:1). If one does not consider “he, that sitteth on the throne” for the moment, we would ask where did the apparition go at this point. He is not mentioned in chapter four; but in chapter five the visionary did speak to one of the ancients; or rather, one of the ancients spoke to him: "Weep not:  behold the lion of the tribe of Juda, the root of David, hath prevailed to open the book and to loose the seven seals thereof”. But his first visitor is not mentioned here either. Neither does he appear in chapter six; but in chapter seven, when the vision again returns to Heaven, another one of the ancients speaks to St. John (Apoc. 7:13-17). In Apoc. 10:4-8 he is told not to write the things the seven thunders has spoken, but to take the ‘little book’ from the angel. That angel was clothed with a cloud (which could mean many things, but it might mean the little cloud at Fatima) and with a rainbow on his head (recalling Apoc. 4:3) and with his face as the sun and his feet as pillars of fire (recalling the apparition of chapter one - although this last is different from the apparition’s feet ‘like unto fine brass, as of a burning furnace’ in verse ten). 

There are no further interactions until much later. But in Apoc. 14:2, St. John hears a voice from heaven, “as of many waters” which recalls the apparition’s description; and the voice also was of thunder, which does not - at least not directly. In Apoc. 4:5 “there proceeded from the throne lightnings and voices and thunders”. Then in verses 13-14 a voice from heaven speaks to him again, declaring a rest from the labours of the faithful martyrs; whereupon he sees a vision of "a white cloud and upon the cloud one sitting like to the Son of man, having on his head a crown of gold and in his hand a sharp sickle" (Apoc. 14 is discussed in Third Secret Martyrdom Vision And Apocalypse 14). Then at a signal from an angel, the earth was reaped by the one having the sharp sickle. We see in this the Patron of the Universal Church bringing home those who remained faithful; the same who had in his hand the ‘angels of the seven churches’ and in the midst of the seven churches.

In Apoc. 17 one of the angels who had the seven vials spoke to St. John and showed him the ‘great harlot’ of all false religions, and he wondered about that. The angel asks him “Why dost thou wonder ?” and proceeds to explain the vision’s significance. Thus far we have not seen again the apparition speak directly to St. John as in the first chapter. But in Apoc. 19:9, after a vision describing the preparations for the marriage supper of the Lamb, after the judgement of Babylon, our seer relates: “And he said to me, Write:  Blessed are they that are called to the marriage supper of the Lamb.  And he saith to me:  These words of God are true”. Presumably it is the same person who spoke to St. John at the beginning, as there is no preamble to indicate someone else.

Then curiously, St. John writes: "And I fell down before his feet, to adore him.  And he saith to me:  See thou do it not.  I am thy fellow servant and of thy brethren who have the testimony of Jesus.  Adore God.  For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy". This declaration indicates, moreso than anything hitherto, the nature of the apparition as being of the Communion of Saints; and as the head of the Holy Family, there is none greater in dignity than St. Joseph; but he is content to refer to himself as one of the servants of Jesus Christ (if indeed it was he who spoke here, in verse 10). But in Apoc. 19:4 it is written that "And the four and twenty ancients and the four living creatures fell down and adored God that sitteth upon the throne, saying:  Amen. Alleluia". We wonder why St. John felt that he should also adore the apparition who was with him, as though there were a distinct resemblance, or perhaps some other relation, between him and “he, that sitteth on the throne”. Perhaps there is a kind of relation of which the closest parallel is the priest conducting Mass and Our Lord Himself of whom the priest acts in persona. Not the same thing, but of a similar order. If this is true, it will have to be defined in a more exact manner.

In Apoc. 19:5 “a voice came out from the throne, saying:  Give praise to our God, all ye his servants:  and you that fear him, little and great”. Whereupon the voice of a great multitude responded, giving glory to God and speaking of gladness for the coming marriage of the Lamb. It is after this sequence, in Apoc. 19:9, that the one who is with St. John, who likely is the same as the apparition of chapter one, speaks to him, confirming all that was said: “These words of God are true”. The thing is, he is confirming the words both of the voice from the throne and of the multitude together, as they speak in union with the Spirit of God.

In Apoc. 19:11-16 is described the rider of the white horse. Here there is no phrase to be found which describes him as “one like to the Son of man” or “one sitting like to the Son of man”; and yet there are several things which recall the apparition of chapter one: Having eyes like a flame a fire; a sharp two-edged sword proceeding from his mouth; who is to rule with a rod of iron. But there are other things which do not recall the apparition: The names which he has, including a name “which no man knoweth but himself”, which recalls what is said of “he, that shall overcome” in one of the letters St. John was bidden to write (Pergamus, in Apoc. 2:17). It would be easy enough to identify him with Our Lord Himself, but it is probably not so easy as that; for now we will pass over those details, noting only the various connections between these persons.

In Apoc. 21:3, there was first "a great voice from the throne, saying:  Behold the tabernacle of God with men:  and he will dwell with them.  And they shall be his people:  and God himself with them shall be their God”. He then continues with words that recall what was said (by one of the ancients) in Apoc. 7:14-17: "And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes:  and death shall be no more. Nor mourning, nor crying, nor sorrow shall be any more, for the former things are passed away” (Apoc. 21:4). This voice should not be mistaken with the ‘voice from heaven’ of Apoc. 10 who instructs St. John not to write what the seven thunders have spoken but to take the ‘little book’ from the hand of the angel. That voice may have been speaking from the throne, but if so, St. John did not see him, nor the throne, as that part of the vision was not seemingly centred around the 'throne set in heaven’. In any case, this “great voice from the throne” speaks from a position of being next to “he, that sitteth on the throne”. As our apparition is not to be found in this chapter, speaking directly to St. John, then it is possibly him who speaks from the throne, concerning God, and then “he, that sitteth on the throne” speaks for himself.

‘He that sat on the throne’ then spoke to St. John, saying :"Behold, I make all things new.  And he said to me:  Write.  For these words are most faithful and true. And he said to me:  It is done.  I am Alpha and Omega:  the Beginning and the End.  To him that thirsteth, I will give of the fountain of the water of life, freely. He that shall overcome shall possess these things.  And I will be his God:  and he shall be my son. But the fearful and unbelieving and the abominable and murderers and whoremongers and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, they shall have their portion in the pool burning with fire and brimstone, which is the second death" (Apoc. 21:5-8). The one who ‘sitteth on the throne’ appears to address the multitude about the throne (heard in Apoc. 19:6), or perhaps Heaven itself, and St. John first: “Behold, I make all things new”; then speaking to our seer directly, whose duty it was to report these things, from the throne of God Himself.

We note that ‘he, that sat on the throne’ deemed it necessary to tell St. John to write this: that “these words are most faithful and true” (similarly phrased in Apoc. 19:9 by either the apparition or the angel of the vials, in chapter seventeen, and Apoc. 22:6 by another angel who had the vials, or the same one, from Apoc. 21:9) It is as though he were speaking in persona the Father. Or, it could actually be Him (and it is the previous, the ‘great voice from the throne’, who is speaking in persona the Father). Here it is necessary to proceed without undue haste; it will become clearer at another time, if not yet. But for now we continue with the next speaker: One of the seven angels, who had the plagues of the vials, came and said "Come and I will shew thee the bride, the wife of the Lamb"; whereupon he took our seer “up in spirit to a great and high mountain”, and he showed him “the holy city Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, etc”. It is not said whether this is the same angel who showed him Babylon in chapter seventeen, but it is possible, as these two visions are the exact opposite, one to the other. It would be consistent; but unnecessary. And during the vision, he "measured the wall [of the City] thereof an hundred forty-four cubits, the measure of a man, which is of an angel". In this New Jerusalem, there seems to be little qualitative difference between man and angel, if they both have the same measure. In the very first verse of Apocalypse St. John even refers to his visitor as an angel.

In Apoc. 22:1, presumably it is the same angel who showed him the New Jerusalem who continues the vision with him. In verses 6-7 he seems to be partly quoting, and paraphrasing, two others - the words of the ‘great voice from the throne’ (the apparition ?) and ‘he, that sitteth on the throne’ who spoke to St. John in Apoc. 21:3-8 - and expanding on it with a sense of finality: There is the tree of life; there “shall be no curse anymore”; there will be no night, nor “need of the light of the lamp”, or the sun, as the Lord God will enlighten them; and “they shall reign for ever and ever”. Afterwards he added, “These words are most faithful and true”. Then St. John “fell down to adore before the feet of the angel” who showed him these things. Whereupon the angel said, similar to the apparition (for so we think it is he) in Apoc. 19:10: “See thou do it not: for I am thy fellow-servant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them that keeps the words of the prophecy of this book. Adore God” (Apoc. 21:9). They are fairly synonymous, showing the unity in spirit of them in Heaven. The rest of the words of the angel (who was one of those who had the vials, and who was with St. John from Apoc. 21:9) are certainly the words of Our Lord Himself, as quoted by him.

Again, here we are not going to analyze the meaning of everything which is spoken, but will try to identify, at least in part, who is whom. So it seems that the last we hear from the apparition of chapter one is when he spoke as ‘a great voice from the throne’, saying: “Behold the tabernacle of God with men: and he will dwell with them. And they shall be his people: and God himself with them shall be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes: and death shall be no more. Nor mourning, nor crying, nor sorrow shall be any more, for the former things are passed away” (Apoc. 21:3-4). ‘He that sat on the throne’ followed up with a promise of eternal happiness for some and eternal condemnation for others; but they are both speaking of the same thing in different aspects. What they both said is essentially combined together in the words of the last angel (who had the vials) in Apoc. 22, ending with words that can only have been from Our Lord, with a ‘certain finality’.

As for whom the angel is, who had the vials, who spoke to St. John in Apoc. 17:1 and Apoc. 21-22, if they are not the same person, it cannot be known who he is or whom they are; as for him who spoke in Apoc. 19:9-10, we would think it is the apparition of chapter one; but it might be the same as the angel of chapter seventeen, if he had remained with the Apostle ever since then; but Apoc. 21:9 seems to belie that (if he had remained with our Saint, why introduce him again ?); and he might be another of the seven angels of the vials; the text does not say whether St. John recognized him as the same one, except that the same description is used.

So in the end, it is not for certain in which places the apparition was with St. John or not; presumably he was, after the first chapter, as it was he who showed him the encompassing vision of Apocalypse in which others participated and showed him related parts of the vision.

We see that the apparition exhibited some details in his description which appear in other persons in Apocalypse, as we noted earlier. To take an obvious example: In Apoc. 1:8 is quoted the words of God: “I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, saith the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty”; the apparition called himself “the First and the Last”; and in Apoc. 22:13 the last angel quotes the words of God: “I am Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End”. We may ascertain that the use of one of these titles by the apparition has to do with some characteristic which is of God and yet also related to his humanity (“and alive, and was dead”) but who is not identified immediately as Our Lord, but “one like to the Son of man”. As Our Lord has Resurrected, and Our Lady Assumed into Heaven, may not the Head of the Holy Family follow as well ? In his capacity as the ‘Father’, he represents in the Holy Family this aspect of the Trinity, as Our Lord is the Son, and the Word of God; and as Our Lady is like the Holy Spirit in nature.

Other Persons In Apocalypse

It is difficult to identify with certainty who is whom in Apocalypse; but we do know one: St. Vincent Ferrer identified himself as the great eagle of chapter eight: 

8:13  And I beheld:  and heard the voice of one eagle flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice:  Woe, Woe, Woe to the inhabitants of the earth, by reason of the rest of the voices of the

three angels, who are yet to sound the trumpet!

We find no reason to disbelieve him of this claim.* What we would like to know is why particularly him at the particular point. An examination of his life and characteristics might provide some enlightenment, which will be attempted at some point and updated here as it is done.

As for the others, the only ones at this point we know for certain are Our Lord, who is obvious in chapter four; the four living creatures as metaphorically representing the Mother of God in each of Her defined Marian dogmas; “he, that sitteth on the throne” as the Father or St. Joseph representing Him (St. John’s vision was of the sort to reveal things which normally could not be seen by the eye. The Father is one of them; the Son we know as He is Incarnate; the Holy Spirit is often represented by the dove. To see the Father is unique). And we are fairly sure the angel of chapter ten is St. Michael the archangel. That is all; except that the angel of chapter seven might possibly be St. Gabriel, as he is described as "ascending from the rising of the sun, having the sign of the living God” (Apoc. 7:2).

However, we also know that the apparition “who is alive, and was dead” is also called ‘an angel’ (a being of Heaven, according to St. John’s usage of the term); and the last angel informs us that the dimensions of the Holy City, measured "thereof an hundred forty-four cubits” which is "the measure of a man, which is of an angel” (Apoc. 21:17). So which of the angels represent saints ?

Then there is the problem of who is not identified, who might be there, due to their position in the history of salvation in the world. Some possibilities include: Abraham, although he is very likely represented as one of the "four and twenty ancients...clothed in white garments. And on their heads were crowns of gold” (Apoc. 4:4). We ought to see them as representing the whole order of the Old Testament. Fr. Kramer (“Book of Destiny”) and/or Fr. Berry (“The Apocalypse of Saint John”) think that their number may be divided along the lines of the Old and New Testament - twelve to each. It is a possibility, although in this case, if one-half of them represent the Twelve Apostles, why did not St. John see himself among them ? But he may not recognize himself thus in the future when in the glorified state. One may also quite rightly argue that the same applies to the apparition, whom St. John may not quite recognize as Our Lord in His glorified state; but we think it unlikely, as our saint has already seen Him resurrected; and thus it seems unlikely he would fail to recognize Our Lord as the apparition, if it were He. In any case, in chapter one St. John refers to the apparition as ‘his angel’ sent by Him “to make known to his servants the things which must shortly come to pass”. So that point is considered moot. But we have to consider the possibility that he asked himself this question (see below) as time is not something the Apocalypse seems to be bound by:

In chapter seven one of the ancients spoke to St. John:

7:13  And one of the ancients answered and said to me: These that are clothed in white robes, who are they?  And whence came they?

7:14  And I said to him: My Lord, thou knowest. And he said to me: These are they who are come out of great tribulation and have washed their robes and have made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

This does not tell us anything of whom he might be, except possibly as a martyr. Now those who “are come out of great tribulation” are not necessarily all martyrs; they may have died because of the tribulation; but at least they have kept the Faith or at least come to the truth in the end, and died for it. as martyrs. This does not tell us much. It only tells us that the ancient who spoke to St. John might himself be a martyr.

The number of seats and of the ancients are not necessarily exactly twelve; their number may simply be representative of the Old Testament and New Testament persons, especially if the Apostles are thus numbered here. But then we arrive at a different problem, because other numbers given in Apocalypse are exact and does not easily admit to a different interpretation. For example the four living creatures can only be four; and the number of elect is carefully laid out as being exactly twelve thousand times twelve, according to each of the twelve tribes of the New Jerusalem of the true Church. For the four living creatures, we know (so far as is possible) that they are metaphorically the four Marian dogmas, thus there cannot be any more or less. It is possible the ’twelve thousand’ of each of the twelve tribes mean 'the complete number of those who represent the true Faith' at that time rather than precisely that number; but until otherwise confirmed we will assume precision.**

In the end, some of those who may be found in Apocalypse are St. Raphael, the only archangel not yet even tentatively identified; St. John the Baptist, St. Peter, St. Paul, Cardinal Guiseppe Siri (who was said to be Pope Gregory XVII, however briefly). It is very unlikely that he would not be there somewhere; perhaps as a ‘voice from heaven’ (Apoc. 10:4) or a ‘voice from the throne’ (Apoc. 19:5) or a 'a great voice out of the temple from the throne’ (Apoc. 16:17) who said, when the seventh vial was poured out, “It is done”; or ‘a great voice from the throne’ (Apoc. 21:3). We believe all of these are different persons speaking, and that St. Peter and Siri are likely among them. Conversely, the ‘papal designate’ (the ‘bishop dressed in white’ of Sr. Lucia’s Third Secret vision and the ‘lamb’ with whom are 144,000 of Apoc. 14:1) may be any of the last three; possibly the one out of the temple from the throne.

There are any number of others who might possibly be there. As St. Vincent Ferrer was the ‘eagle flying’ announcing the last three woes, this really opens the possibilities, and it is hardly possible to be more precise at this time.

*We do not recall where the source is. When it is found, it will be updated here.

**The world may attempt to confound the number of elect by creating false personas with AI, and so make the number not precisely 144,000, if it is meant to be that number. But the elect will know each other in a spiritual way, having been ‘signed’ in chapter seven (how it is we do not yet know). In this case, those who have some affinity for the truth in the world, who might be save, will believe the truth in this; if not, they will believe imprecision in Scripture, and thus believe the elect to be ‘falsely of God’. At the least, this is one possible scenario.