"A Throne Set In Heaven"
The apparition of chapter one was Saint Joseph, speaking to Saint John as Patron of the Universal Church [1], symbolized by the seven golden candlesticks in the midst of which he stood. In chapter four, he resumes:
4:1 After these things I looked, and behold a door was opened in heaven, and the first voice which I heard, as it were, of a trumpet speaking with me, said: Come up hither, and I will shew thee the things which must be done hereafter.
K~ Then a vision came to me; I saw a door in
heaven, standing open. And the same voice, which I had heard speaking to
me before, loud as the call of a trumpet, said to me, Come up to my
side, and I will shew thee what must find, after this, its due
accomplishment.
The Knox translation gives a better sense of to whom the first voice belongs: "...And the same voice, which I had heard speaking to me before, loud as the call of a trumpet, etc". In the older, the sense is as much that of a new voice speaking (the first from the opened door) as that of the original voice in chapter one.[2]
Verses two through five describe the throne and its occupant (which will be examined later). In verse one (Knox), the voice said "Come up to my side, and I will shew thee what must, etc". The owner of the voice and the occupant of the throne are not one and the same, though there is a relation.[3]
[Dec.06/25 Edit: "He, that sitteth on the throne" addendum for The Apparition Of Chapter One].
The Four Living Creatures
These descriptions are purely metaphorical. The one who occupies the throne has a relation to the apparition of chapter one, in part, by the "seven lamps burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God"[4]; and the four living creatures are recognized, in part, by their relationship to him; and the metaphors employed here can be recognized as elements representing the Blessed Virgin Mary (after much theological development, and not until the definition of the Assumption), in particular the four Marian dogmas.
4:6 And in the sight of the throne was, as it were, a sea of glass like to crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four living creatures, full of eyes before and behind.
K~ facing it was a whole sea of glass, like
crystal. And in the midst, where the throne was, round the throne
itself, were four living figures, that had eyes everywhere to see before
them and behind them.
In metaphorical language, the scene is that of the Mother of God before Her Creator upon the throne. As She is 'filled with grace' and without blemish, Her presence is as of "a sea of glass like to crystal" facing the throne and "in the sight of the throne": before all else in Creation, God sees first Her perfections, clear as water, and unchanging, "like crystal".
The four living creatures, or figures, represent the Mother of God with God all around the throne, in proximity to the sea of glass signifying Her perfection in grace.[5] They are constantly giving glory and devotion to God:
4:7 And the first living creature was like a lion: and the second living creature like a calf: and the third living creature, having the face, as it were, of a man: and the fourth living creature was like an eagle flying.
K~ The first figure was that of a lion, the
second that of an ox, the third had a man’s look, and the fourth was
that of an eagle in flight.
The two translations differ slightly in their sense. The original interpretation will be given first:
The first living creature, "like a lion"[6], is to be like Our Lord in some unique way; the second, "like a calf", is a figure of youthfulness, as virginal; the third, "having the face, as it were, of a man", because Her purpose was to bring Christ into the world and we know Her by this role; the fourth, "like an eagle flying" as already in Heaven.
They represent Our Lady personified in the four Marian dogmas. First being the Immaculate Conception: She is without Original Sin as is Our Lord (and as no one else). Second is the Perpetual Virginity; although a mother, She remained a virgin. Third is the Divine Maternity, which is derived from Her title as Mother of God. Fourth is the Assumption, when She was taken up to Heaven, body and soul, after three days.
The second and the third Marian dogmas were defined in antiquity. But the first and the last were defined only in 1854 (Immaculate Conception) and 1950 (Assumption).
The Knox translation agrees in most respects excepting the second figure as "an ox". If this be considered as the vitality of youth (as virginal) then it has a similar meaning but in a more generalized way.[7]
Verses nine to eleven concern the "four and twenty ancients" who, following the lead of the four living creatures, give glory to "him that sitteth on the throne".[8]
4:8 And the four living creatures had each of them six wings: and
round about and within they are full of eyes. And they rested not day
and night, saying: Holy, Holy, Holy, Lord God Almighty, who was and who
is and who is to come.
K~ Each of the four figures had six wings, with
eyes everywhere looking outwards and inwards; day and night they cried
unceasingly, Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God, the Almighty, who ever
was, and is, and is still to come.
This is Mary's continual intercession
for sinners and Her continual devotion to Her Creator. Her role as
Queen of Prophets can be seen by the "eyes everywhere looking outwards
and inwards". The position of being before the throne is one of
timelessness (as Heaven is outside of time); and by being filled with
grace nothing is lacking in Her foresight or hindsight.[9]
The First Four Seals And The Four Horsemen
Apoc. 6:1 And I saw that the Lamb had opened one of the seven seals: and I heard one of the four living creatures, as it were the voice of thunder, saying: Come and see.
K~ Then, in my vision, the Lamb broke open one of
the seven seals, and with that I heard one of the four living figures
say, in a voice like thunder, Come and look.
The order in which the four living creatures appear is the same as their ordering, as they happened, in time, but not in the order of definition. Although the Immaculate Conception was the third Marian dogma to be defined, it represented the first event of Mary's life in time.[11]
The "voice of thunder" is together the voice of Pope Pius IX, who defined the dogma in 1854, and the voice of the Queen of Heaven Who, at Lourdes in 1858, said "I am the Immaculate Conception".[12]
6:2 And I saw: and behold a white horse, and he that sat on him had a bow, and there was a crown given him, and he went forth conquering that he might conquer.
K~ So I looked, and saw there a white horse,
whose rider carried a bow; a crown was given him, and he rode out
victorious, and to win victory.
The seals began to be opened in 1941, the year Sr. Lucia began to write down the Secret of Fatima for the first time (the third part would not be written until 1944).[13]
The white horse is the United States going forth to war during World War II. It signifies the powers moved by the White House; the crown of its rider is the title of "the most powerful nation". The bow signifies in particular its air power, from the aircraft carriers to missiles. This was the turning point in the war: "...and he rode out victorious, and to win victory". The wars have never since altogether ceased.
Opened December 8, 1941 upon the declaration of war after Pearl Harbour the day before.
6:3-4 And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature saying: Come and see./ And there went out another horse that was red. And to him that sat thereon, it was given that he should take peace from the earth: and that they should kill one another. And a great sword was given to him.
K~ And when he broke the second seal, I heard the second figure say, Come and look;/ and a second horse came out, fiery-red, whose
rider was empowered to take away all peace from the world, bidding men
slay one another; and a great sword was given to him.
The red horse is the powers moved by the 'Red house' of the Kremlin, the forces of militant atheism. Its rider "took the peace from the earth" by instigating the Cold War. "Bidding men slay one another" is as much the opposition of communists and non-communists, and the revolutions they foment, as the main opponents of the Cold War (NATO and the Warsaw Pact). The "great sword" given to him (via traitors in the West) was nuclear capability. When the first bomb was successfully tested in 1949, this seal was opened.
As the secrets to atomic power were leaked to the Soviet Union by spies, this 'great sword' was thus "given" to the Red Horse.
6:5-6 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature saying: Come and see. And behold a black horse. And he that sat on him had a pair of scales in his hand./ And I heard, as it were a voice in the midst of the four living creatures, saying: Two pounds of wheat for a penny, and thrice two pounds of barley for a penny: and see thou hurt not the wine and the oil.
K~ And when he broke the third seal, I heard the third figure say, Come and
look; so I looked, and saw there a black horse, whose rider carried in
his hand a pair of scales;/ I thought, too, I heard a voice that came from
where the living figures were. A silver piece, it said, for a quart of
wheat, a silver piece for three quarts of barley; but do the wine and
the oil no hurt.
This is the establishment of what would become the European Union. It is a market regulation, designed to build a 'common market' in the region. It was 'signed' as the Treaty of Rome in 1957[14], which is the opening of this seal.[15]
In the Douay-Rheims translation, there is a single unit of currency to represent multiple units of goods. The Knox translation is not substantially different. This means not a time of economic hardship, but of plenty, otherwise there should be multiple units of currency to represent a single unit of goods. The wine and the oil are cheap.
This may also be interpreted as a kind of price fixing or economic control, even in the midst of plenty, so that people can no longer be truly independent, or to organize in a way as to keep independent. The eternal mortgages are one example.
Since it was the 'Treaty of Rome', the voice which was heard "in the midst of the four living creatures" was heard where the center of the Faith is, in Rome, where the seat of the Papacy which defines these dogmas is found. Since its primary concern is economic matters, it can be said to be the 'Black house'.
6:7-8 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature saying: Come and see./ And behold a pale horse: and he that sat upon him, his name was Death. And hell followed him. And power was given to him over the four parts of the earth, to kill with sword, with famine and with death and with the beasts of the earth.
K~ And when he broke the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living figure say, Come and look./ So I looked, and saw there a cream-white
horse; its rider was called Death, and Hell went at his bridle-rein; he
was allowed to have his way with all the four quarters of the world,
killing men by the sword, by famine, by plague, and through wild beasts
that roam the earth.
The pale horse is a better description than "cream-white" if 'pale' means 'sickly', and the Vatican '2' church with its substitute version of Catholic doctrine is a pale version of the authentic Faith. However, "cream-white" describes the colour of St. Peter's Basilica fairly well.
The actions of the pale horse should be taken in a spiritual sense, as its rider was called 'Death' and that "hell followed him". As the Vatican had become the seat of the 'antipapacy', it leads to spiritual death. The new counterfeit religion obscured the true religion throughout the places of the visible church in the world ("the four parts of the earth"). It kills spiritually with bad decrees ("the sword"), with invalid sacraments ("famine"), with heresies (spiritual "death"), and, with the use of modern technology, rapidly spread its errors through the world ("with the beasts of the earth")[16].
This seal was opened in 1965, when Vatican '2' was made official by antipope Paul 6 on December 8, exactly twenty-four years after the first. There is a definite sequence in their opening; every eighth year after the first, in 1941. These four seals were announced by the four living creatures beforehand, and the reason for this, in retrospect, is because their opening could not be seen except by looking back, long afterwards, with the benefit of hindsight.[17]
The last three seals were not announced by the four living creatures because those who are living through their time should, with the benefit of looking back, anticipate those seals' opening as they occur. For the last three seals, go to "The Last Three Seals In Our Time"From
Haydock: "The lightnings, loud voices, and thunders, which come from
the throne of God, announce alarms and severe hardships, such as
persecutions, heresies, calamities, &c. by which he tries the
fidelity of his servants on earth. And the seven spirits of God, who
appear under the form of burning lamps, are seven Angels, as before
mention, (Chap. i. 4.) standing ready to execute the divine commands
(Walmesley)".
"Him, That Sitteth On The Throne" (Chapter 4)
4:2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and behold there was a throne set in heaven, and upon the throne one sitting.
K~ And all at once I was in a trance, and saw where a throne stood in heaven, and one sat there enthroned.
Haydock's commentary states that the one sitting is "representing God the Father".[18]
4:3 And he that sat, was to the sight like the jasper and the sardine stone; and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.
Haydock's commentary states that the one sitting is "representing God the Father".[18]
4:3 And he that sat, was to the sight like the jasper and the sardine stone; and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.
K~ He who sat there bore the semblance of a jewel, jasper or sardius, and there was a rainbow about the throne, like a vision of emerald.
From Haydock: "And he....was to the sight like the jasper,[Similis erat aspectui jaspidis, omoios orasei iaspidi] or had the appearance of jaspers, as to the colours with which he appeared, &c. (Witham)".
The jasper stone is "most commonly red, but may be yellow, brown, green or (rarely) blue"; the sardine stone is "reddish brown" and is a type of carnelian (Wikipedia). An 'emerald-tinted rainbow' probably makes reference to creation, as green is representative of growth, but "like a vision of emerald" speaks to its true Divine origin. As this was also a rainbow this is like many different shades or kinds of creation.
Fr. Kramer likens the jasper stone to God's holiness and the sardine to His justice. As they are given together, they are blended, which symbolizes the oneness of God's holiness and justice. As for the rainbow, he calls it a "symbol of mercy. It is not a rainbow proper for it is emerald coloured". Also: "God appears infinitely just and holy in all that He decrees or permits to befall His Church. His perfections reflect mercy under the guise of an emerald-colored halo. Emerald is the symbol of faith which reflects the hope of salvation" (The Book of Destiny, p.60).
4:4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats; and upon the seats, four and twenty ancients sitting, clothed in white garments, and on their heads were crowns of gold.
K~ Round it were twenty-four seats, and on these sat twenty-four elders, clothed in white garments, with crowns of gold on their heads.
From Haydock: "These four and twenty elders sitting round the throne of God, represent the judgment which the Almighty was about to pass upon the enemies of his Church. Thus in Daniel, when he was about to pronounce sentence against Antiochus Epiphanes, "thrones were placed, and the ancient of days sat,...the judgment sat, and the books were opened." (Daniel vii. 9, 10.) They represent kings and priests who attend on the Sovereign Judge. It appears as if God intended to designate by the number the ancient patriarchs and the twelve apostles, who judge with the Lord, and condemn the injustice of their persecutors (Calmet)".
4:5 And from the throne proceeded lightnings, and voices, and thunders; and there were seven lamps burning before the throne, which are the seven spirits of God.
K~ Lightnings came out from the throne, and mutterings, and thunders, and before it burned seven lamps, which are the seven spirits of God;
From Haydock: "The lightnings, loud voices, and thunders, which come from the throne of God, announce alarms and severe hardships, such as persecutions, heresies, calamities, &c. by which he tries the fidelity of his servants on earth. And the seven spirits of God, who appear under the form of burning lamps, are seven Angels, as before mention, (Chap. i. 4.) standing ready to execute the divine commands (Walmesley)".
Summary / Context
The Fatima-Apocalypse (as it may be called, since Fatima leads into the Apocalypse) might have begun as early as La Salette, 1846, when the secret given to Melanie and Maximin was passed along to Pope Pius XI in 1851, of which he was later said to have said: "It is good that we were forewarned, etc".[19] Given the state of Europe at the time, filled with revolutions, there might have become another situation like that of Pius VII, who was a prisoner of Bonaparte from 1809 to 1814; or Pius VI, taken prisoner by Revolutionary troops from France. But it is not known what possible situation Pius IX was referring to.
Or perhaps it might have begun in 1903, when one Cardinal Rampolla, a freemason, happened to be elected; but his election was vetoed by Emperor Franz Josef of Austria-Hungary (legal heir to the Holy Roman Empire), after which St. Pius X abrogated that ancient privilege.
It properly began when Lucia dos Santos first saw an apparition, that of the angel in 1915, after which she and her two cousins subsequently saw the angel in 1916, preparatory to Our Lady's visitations at Fatima in 1917. Catholic prophecy before then was on a 'timeline' which would have culminated in the events as related in Apocalypse chapter eleven. With Fatima, for the first time both 'timelines' were possible: Either chapter eleven or chapter thirteen, but not both.[20]
Chapter four opens with St. John being invited to 'come up hither' and see. It begins with a vision of a throne set in heaven with one enthroned who is representative of the Father. From thence 'proceeded lightnings, and voices, and thunders' among which might be decrees concerning the beginning of the "last times of the world".[21] Then when the four living creatures, representing the Blessed Virgin in the four Marian dogmas, gave glory to to him that sat on the throne, the 'four and twenty ancients' followed suit.[22] It was then that it was decreed that the mystery of Fatima begins. This is why the four living creatures are the focus of chapter four. St. Joseph brings St. John to see the vision of the Father in heaven when He decrees that Fatima should begin.
Chapter five concerns the book of life of the Lamb. It is of the Lamb "slain from the beginning of the world" (Apoc. 13:8) and written "from the foundation of the world" (Apoc. 17:8) and is to be unsealed beginning from a certain time.[23] The reason it could not be unsealed before is similar to why no one could enter heaven before Christ's victory on the cross. The book and its seals are related to the Church's own passion, which she must undergo as her Lord did. Again, Fatima is the beginning of this trial.[24]
When the seals were being opened in chapter six, Our Lady's Fatima prophecy was already being fulfilled. Before Sr. Lucia had revealed it to Pope Pius XII in 1941, the prophesied "second worse war" was already under way. From the time the secret was first written until the close of the fateful Vatican council '2' they were opened every eighth year. The seals' opening does not make for a closer parallel, because they are concerned with the book of life; that is their focus. Then after the four living creatures announced the first four horsemen, they fell silent, even as the Church has appeared to be silent especially since 1965; until the time came for the last three seals to be opened, during which the elect shall be found. As we are currently after the fifth and before the sixth (June 2025) nothing more can be added with anything approaching certainty.
The Fatima-Apocalypse (as it may be called, since Fatima leads into the Apocalypse) might have begun as early as La Salette, 1846, when the secret given to Melanie and Maximin was passed along to Pope Pius XI in 1851, of which he was later said to have said: "It is good that we were forewarned, etc".[19] Given the state of Europe at the time, filled with revolutions, there might have become another situation like that of Pius VII, who was a prisoner of Bonaparte from 1809 to 1814; or Pius VI, taken prisoner by Revolutionary troops from France. But it is not known what possible situation Pius IX was referring to.
Or perhaps it might have begun in 1903, when one Cardinal Rampolla, a freemason, happened to be elected; but his election was vetoed by Emperor Franz Josef of Austria-Hungary (legal heir to the Holy Roman Empire), after which St. Pius X abrogated that ancient privilege.
It properly began when Lucia dos Santos first saw an apparition, that of the angel in 1915, after which she and her two cousins subsequently saw the angel in 1916, preparatory to Our Lady's visitations at Fatima in 1917. Catholic prophecy before then was on a 'timeline' which would have culminated in the events as related in Apocalypse chapter eleven. With Fatima, for the first time both 'timelines' were possible: Either chapter eleven or chapter thirteen, but not both.[20]
Chapter four opens with St. John being invited to 'come up hither' and see. It begins with a vision of a throne set in heaven with one enthroned who is representative of the Father. From thence 'proceeded lightnings, and voices, and thunders' among which might be decrees concerning the beginning of the "last times of the world".[21] Then when the four living creatures, representing the Blessed Virgin in the four Marian dogmas, gave glory to to him that sat on the throne, the 'four and twenty ancients' followed suit.[22] It was then that it was decreed that the mystery of Fatima begins. This is why the four living creatures are the focus of chapter four. St. Joseph brings St. John to see the vision of the Father in heaven when He decrees that Fatima should begin.
Chapter five concerns the book of life of the Lamb. It is of the Lamb "slain from the beginning of the world" (Apoc. 13:8) and written "from the foundation of the world" (Apoc. 17:8) and is to be unsealed beginning from a certain time.[23] The reason it could not be unsealed before is similar to why no one could enter heaven before Christ's victory on the cross. The book and its seals are related to the Church's own passion, which she must undergo as her Lord did. Again, Fatima is the beginning of this trial.[24]
When the seals were being opened in chapter six, Our Lady's Fatima prophecy was already being fulfilled. Before Sr. Lucia had revealed it to Pope Pius XII in 1941, the prophesied "second worse war" was already under way. From the time the secret was first written until the close of the fateful Vatican council '2' they were opened every eighth year. The seals' opening does not make for a closer parallel, because they are concerned with the book of life; that is their focus. Then after the four living creatures announced the first four horsemen, they fell silent, even as the Church has appeared to be silent especially since 1965; until the time came for the last three seals to be opened, during which the elect shall be found. As we are currently after the fifth and before the sixth (June 2025) nothing more can be added with anything approaching certainty.
Footnotes
1. Though a remnant at this time, the title still applies.
2. In the old version of this post, this error was made. Knox uses the same description as he did in Apoc. 1:10: "loud as the call of a trumpet"; unmistakably linking the two.
3. As the Holy Family is a reflection of the Trinity, St. Joseph is representative of the Father.
4. One difference is that the apparition of chapter one is "in the midst" of the seven golden candlesticks, representing the seven churches (Apoc. 1:13) and the seven lamps, not candlesticks, are "before the throne" (Apoc. 4:5).
[Edit:] The lamps are to the throne (the Father) what the candlesticks are to the apparition of chapter one (St. Joseph) and the Holy Spirit is with both; and the seven spirits, the lamps, are "the seven angels who stand before the throne of God, and by extension, all angels" (The Apocalypse Of St. John, p.60); and the seven stars in his hand, which "are the angels of the seven churches" (Apoc. 1:16,20), are not of the same order as those before the throne, though they must be similar in nature.
[Edit:] The lamps are to the throne (the Father) what the candlesticks are to the apparition of chapter one (St. Joseph) and the Holy Spirit is with both; and the seven spirits, the lamps, are "the seven angels who stand before the throne of God, and by extension, all angels" (The Apocalypse Of St. John, p.60); and the seven stars in his hand, which "are the angels of the seven churches" (Apoc. 1:16,20), are not of the same order as those before the throne, though they must be similar in nature.
5. The sea of glass (and the four living creatures) would seem to be situated between the throne and everything else. The Knox translation gives the sense as of the throne being situated
where the sea of glass is, and then the four living creatures, where the
throne is.
6. The "lion of the tribe of Judah" (Apoc. 5:5).
7.
The third "had a man's look" which means not that the figure of the
Divine Maternity had the face of a man, but that Her title as the Mother
of God, of the God-man, was the 'face' of this figure. The other three
do not make such immediate reference to Him.
8. Our Lady, having been Assumed into Heaven, is truly "living"
therein;
and other than Our Lord, there are others who, upon His Resurrection,
were also taken up: "And the graves were opened: and many bodies of the
saints that had slept arose, /And coming out of the tombs after his
resurrection, came into the holy city and appeared to many" (St. Matt.
27:52-53).
9. The reference to God Who "ever was, and is, and is, and is still to come" also speaks of the past, present and future, which the Queen of Prophets can see, including histories that are otherwise unknown.
10. Excerpt taken from "City of God", St. Augustine, Volume I (Part 30): 'Of the perfection of the number six, which is the first of the numbers which is composed of its component parts':
These works are recorded to have been completed in six days (the same day being six times repeated), because six is a perfect number,--not because God required a protracted time, as if He could not at once create all things, which then should mark the course of time by the movements proper to them, but because the perfection of the works was signified by the number six. For the number six is the first which is made up of its own parts, _i.e._, of its sixth, third, and half, which are respectively one, two, and three, and which make a total of six. In this way of looking at a number, those are said to be its parts which exactly divide it, as a half, a third, a fourth, or a fraction with any denominator,--_e.g._, four is a part of nine, but not therefore a component part; but one is, for it is the ninth part; and three is, for it is the third. Yet these two parts, the ninth and the third, or one and three, are far from making its whole sum of nine. So again, in the number ten, four is a part, yet does not divide it; but one is a component part, for it is a tenth; so it has a fifth, which is two; and a half, which is five. But these three parts, a tenth, a fifth, and a half, or one, two, and five, added together, do not make ten, but eight. Of the number twelve, again, the parts added together exceed the whole; for it has a twelfth, that is, one; a sixth, or two; a fourth, which is three; a third, which is four; and a half, which is six. But one, two, three, four, and six make up, not twelve, but more, viz. sixteen. So much I have thought fit to state for the sake of illustrating the perfection of the number six, which is, as I said, the first which is exactly made up of its own parts added together; and in this number of days God finished His work. And, therefore, we must not despise the science of numbers, which, in many passages of holy Scripture, is found to be of eminent service to the careful interpreter. Neither has it been without reason numbered among God's praises, "Thou hast ordered all things in number, and measure, and weight."
(Footnotes references removed; and the word "aliquot" replaced with "component").
11. Which living creature in particular had the "voice of thunder" is not specified for this reason, in case the first and third should be confused.
12. This 'echo' of the voice of the Pope and of Heaven had not happened before.
13. The Whole Truth About Fatima, Vol.II, p.460-67. The Secret of Fatima in 1941
15. It went into force on January 1, 1958; but as the deals were completed the year before, 1957 should be seen as the year of this seal's opening.
16. Modern technology as machines of all kinds can be said to be "beasts of the earth", as they were made from the materials of the world but not with life, as actual beasts have it. The Knox translation describes them as "wild beasts that roam the earth" which can be automobiles and aircraft.
17. The four living creatures "had eyes everywhere to see before
them and behind them" (Apoc. 4:6 Knox). It is possible that these seals were announced specifically by Our Lady of Fatima in the third part of the Secret, but, if it is established that the four living creatures are in fact Herself, She did not need to speak of them specifically in the third Secret.
18. Haydock commentary online. All references for chapter four.
19. The full quote, or at least a close paraphrase: "It is good that we were forewarned, otherwise we might have found ourselves at an impasse, from which we could not escape". He is said to have told this to someone, but the source could not be found.
20. See "Two Timelines Of Apocalypse (Part Three)".
21. From Sr. Lucia's testimony to Fr. Fuentes in 1957.
22. Fr. Berry describes the vision of chapter four as symbolic of the constitution of the Church (The Apocalypse Of St. John, p.58): "This vision of adoration is a symbol of the worship offered to God in His Church on earth. The throne of God is the altar upon which the Lamb is mystically slain in the holy sacrifice of the Mass. Before Him all the faithful bow down in adoration and sing their canticles of praise. In ancient times the bishop had his throne behind the altar, and round about it on either side sat the priests and other clergy. During solemn Mass lighted lamps stood around the altar and ministers carried vessels of burning incense. Beneath the altar reposed the relies of martyrs who had suffered for their faith".
Fr. Kramer: "God's holiness manifests itself in a twofold guidance of the Church: The first is through the endowments conferred upon His Church bodied forth in the lightnings, voices and thunders, which are the prerogatives enabling her to spread the Gospel; the second is through the divine assistance or activity of the Holy Spirit in the Church symbolized by the seven lamps before the throne, which denote the seven gifts of the Holy Spirit guiding and helping her in the spread of the Gospel. The lightnings are the charismata, the power of miracles and the powers of the ministerial office, which is a de condigno right of the Church, because she is in the supernatural order and needs supernatural means to fulfill her mission...The voices proceeding from the throne are the natural gift of eloquence in the Church to preach the revealed truth and are expressive of all external activity of the pastoral office, all of which has a sacred character and divine authority... The thunders are the voice of supreme authority in the Church issuing decrees, dogmas, laws, condemning idolatry and heresy and expressing anathemas and warnings against all who resist the truth and persist in sin...The lighted lamps are not in this vision the seven churches. They symbolize the external mission and activity of the Holy Spirit enlightening, guiding and sanctifying the Church, comforting her in the trials endured and protecting her against danger" (The Book Of Destiny, p.62).
Chapter four (and chapter five) may be either of these, or even both; but those visions in particular concern when the end-times were decreed to begin, fated from the beginning of the history of the Church. Fatima and the establishment of communism both beginning in 1917 parallel this. The seals began to be unsealed in 1941, when Sr. Lucia wrote down the secret of Fatima for the first time, though not yet the third part.
23. This book is not the words Daniel was told to seal up: "But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time appointed: many shall pass over, and knowledge shall be manifold" (Daniel 12:4); "And I heard, and understood not. And I said: O my lord, what shall be after these things? And he said: Go, Daniel, because the words are shut up, and sealed until the appointed time" (Daniel 12:8-9). That would be the Apocalypse itself, which speaks of these things, which was 'sealed up' until St. John wrote them down. Rather, it is the book spoken of in verse one: "...and a time shall come such as never was from the time that nations began even until that time. And at that time shall thy people be saved, every one that shall be found written in the book".
The other book, of Daniel, which speaks of the events of "the time appointed" is the one spoken of in Apocalypse chapter ten: "And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot upon the earth"; or "He carried in his hand an open book. Setting his right foot on the sea, and his left on the dry land, etc" (Apoc. 10:2 and Knox). See "Two Timelines Of Apocalypse (Part Three)" for how this relates to Apocalypse itself.
Some see the Apocalypse as a history of the Church from the beginning to the end-times, and while this may be true enough on one interpretation, the fact remains that it is not so useful as to help the remnant of the Church of that time, who must know their own history in order to be that remnant of the Church. The Gospel accounts need no addition to tell us what is needed to know about the end-times, unless of course the Apocalypse is not speaking of the same time - there is the 'thousand years' of chapter twenty when the dragon is bound before the real, actual end of the world. This is why the antichrist is not mentioned in the Gospel accounts of Matt. 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21; he is long gone by that time, and is mentioned with the false prophet in Apoc. 20:9-10 before the actual end as already being in hell.
24. Lest the charge be made as to 'paying too much attention to private revelation' or even 'adding to Apocalypse', as St. John warns against ("If any man shall add to these things. God shall add unto him the plagues written in this book. And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from these things that are written in this book" [Apoc. 22:18-19]), it should be pointed out, how would one know that St. John's visions was not, in part, the Virgin's prophecy to be given in the future being fulfilled ? As will be seen in "Two Timelines Of Apocalypse (Part Three)", the Apocalypse has two possible ends as does Fatima prophecy. Our Lady did not have to mention the Apocalypse; in fact it appears She deliberately avoided doing so precisely that the charge related to Apoc. 22:18-19 be not laid upon Her message.
As to certain roles which have been assigned to the Blessed Virgin and St. Joseph in Apocalypse according to available information, They must have known something of this while yet on earth, since they had thirty years with Our Lord before He began His mission. Certainly They had time to discuss it, as a family might.
20. See "Two Timelines Of Apocalypse (Part Three)".
21. From Sr. Lucia's testimony to Fr. Fuentes in 1957.
22. Fr. Berry describes the vision of chapter four as symbolic of the constitution of the Church (The Apocalypse Of St. John, p.58): "This vision of adoration is a symbol of the worship offered to God in His Church on earth. The throne of God is the altar upon which the Lamb is mystically slain in the holy sacrifice of the Mass. Before Him all the faithful bow down in adoration and sing their canticles of praise. In ancient times the bishop had his throne behind the altar, and round about it on either side sat the priests and other clergy. During solemn Mass lighted lamps stood around the altar and ministers carried vessels of burning incense. Beneath the altar reposed the relies of martyrs who had suffered for their faith".
Fr. Kramer: "God's holiness manifests itself in a twofold guidance of the Church: The first is through the endowments conferred upon His Church bodied forth in the lightnings, voices and thunders, which are the prerogatives enabling her to spread the Gospel; the second is through the divine assistance or activity of the Holy Spirit in the Church symbolized by the seven lamps before the throne, which denote the seven gifts of the Holy Spirit guiding and helping her in the spread of the Gospel. The lightnings are the charismata, the power of miracles and the powers of the ministerial office, which is a de condigno right of the Church, because she is in the supernatural order and needs supernatural means to fulfill her mission...The voices proceeding from the throne are the natural gift of eloquence in the Church to preach the revealed truth and are expressive of all external activity of the pastoral office, all of which has a sacred character and divine authority... The thunders are the voice of supreme authority in the Church issuing decrees, dogmas, laws, condemning idolatry and heresy and expressing anathemas and warnings against all who resist the truth and persist in sin...The lighted lamps are not in this vision the seven churches. They symbolize the external mission and activity of the Holy Spirit enlightening, guiding and sanctifying the Church, comforting her in the trials endured and protecting her against danger" (The Book Of Destiny, p.62).
Chapter four (and chapter five) may be either of these, or even both; but those visions in particular concern when the end-times were decreed to begin, fated from the beginning of the history of the Church. Fatima and the establishment of communism both beginning in 1917 parallel this. The seals began to be unsealed in 1941, when Sr. Lucia wrote down the secret of Fatima for the first time, though not yet the third part.
23. This book is not the words Daniel was told to seal up: "But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time appointed: many shall pass over, and knowledge shall be manifold" (Daniel 12:4); "And I heard, and understood not. And I said: O my lord, what shall be after these things? And he said: Go, Daniel, because the words are shut up, and sealed until the appointed time" (Daniel 12:8-9). That would be the Apocalypse itself, which speaks of these things, which was 'sealed up' until St. John wrote them down. Rather, it is the book spoken of in verse one: "...and a time shall come such as never was from the time that nations began even until that time. And at that time shall thy people be saved, every one that shall be found written in the book".
The other book, of Daniel, which speaks of the events of "the time appointed" is the one spoken of in Apocalypse chapter ten: "And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot upon the earth"; or "He carried in his hand an open book. Setting his right foot on the sea, and his left on the dry land, etc" (Apoc. 10:2 and Knox). See "Two Timelines Of Apocalypse (Part Three)" for how this relates to Apocalypse itself.
Some see the Apocalypse as a history of the Church from the beginning to the end-times, and while this may be true enough on one interpretation, the fact remains that it is not so useful as to help the remnant of the Church of that time, who must know their own history in order to be that remnant of the Church. The Gospel accounts need no addition to tell us what is needed to know about the end-times, unless of course the Apocalypse is not speaking of the same time - there is the 'thousand years' of chapter twenty when the dragon is bound before the real, actual end of the world. This is why the antichrist is not mentioned in the Gospel accounts of Matt. 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21; he is long gone by that time, and is mentioned with the false prophet in Apoc. 20:9-10 before the actual end as already being in hell.
24. Lest the charge be made as to 'paying too much attention to private revelation' or even 'adding to Apocalypse', as St. John warns against ("If any man shall add to these things. God shall add unto him the plagues written in this book. And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from these things that are written in this book" [Apoc. 22:18-19]), it should be pointed out, how would one know that St. John's visions was not, in part, the Virgin's prophecy to be given in the future being fulfilled ? As will be seen in "Two Timelines Of Apocalypse (Part Three)", the Apocalypse has two possible ends as does Fatima prophecy. Our Lady did not have to mention the Apocalypse; in fact it appears She deliberately avoided doing so precisely that the charge related to Apoc. 22:18-19 be not laid upon Her message.
As to certain roles which have been assigned to the Blessed Virgin and St. Joseph in Apocalypse according to available information, They must have known something of this while yet on earth, since they had thirty years with Our Lord before He began His mission. Certainly They had time to discuss it, as a family might.
(* They also had much more time in the ensuing centuries but it seems to us that some of the things pertaining to Apocalypse had to be established in this life as a kind of foundation.)
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