Sr. Lucia/Fr. Fuentes Interview Revisited (1957)
All indications are that Sr. Lucia was not aware of of all of
this about the two timelines and the book of life. And this is not to
be wondered at, since Our Lady Herself was careful not to speak about
it. That is really the big secret behind the Secret of Fatima. Some may
see it as impossible, as it seems misleading, both to the seer
and to us. But the point was not to mislead all of us. It was to cause
the devil to deceive himself. And this happened; no wonder he is so
angry.
But
everything Our Lady said was true (and we have developed this
elsewhere); She just did not reference the book of life; She was not supposed to. She indicated what will happen if Her requests were heeded, or not. And thus, Pius XII did not actually fail
when he did not consecrate Russia together with the bishops of the
world. It is, instead, a demonstration of Papal Infallibility.
And
no matter what else has been happening since then, we see that it is
actually better this way, in the second timeline, for it is the one way
the book of life is unsealed. However, in the meantime there is a real
danger for souls (that has not changed) so let us re-examine Sr. Lucia's
warnings to Fr. Fuentes from this perspective:
The operation of error.
Sr. Lucia said. "Father, the most Holy Virgin is very sad because no
one has paid any attention to Her Message, neither the good nor the bad.
The good continue on their way, but without giving any importance to
Her Message. The bad, not seeing the punishment of God actually falling
upon them, continue their life of sin without even caring about the
Message. But believe me, Father, God will chastise the world and this
will be in a terrible manner. The punishment from Heaven is imminent".
The
good in this case would be faithful Catholics who, if they were paying
attention, would give heed to 1960 which was then approaching. If more
of them paid attention, then they might have realized what it meant when
Roncalli refused to reveal it. But we do not think that is really the
point; the antipapacy had to be established. The point is more
along the lines of 'reading the signs of the times' which means the
end-times, where everything is decided.
The
bad did not see 'the punishment of God actually falling upon them'
because they did not love the truth and had no faith. The 'punishment
from Heaven' (in hindsight), then, is twofold: First, that the Faith
itself would be taken away but not obviously (1958-present) so that even
if one were to convert, it would not avail them, as they would be part
of the Vatican '2' church; secondly, it is the establishment of the
'operation of error' spoken of by St. Paul. So this statement is like an
expanded form of 2 Thess. 2:7-11, in which the papacy is 'taken out of
the way', leading to the establishment of the antipapacy, which leads to
the antichrist, who comes 'in all seduction of iniquity to them that
perish' because they did not love the truth. But this is getting ahead
of ourselves, as the seals are not yet actually unsealed at this point,
and the antichrist forerunners are not yet the antichrist himself. In
fact, there is a 'circular' element: St. Paul's description contains
both the beginning of this time where the antipapacy is established and
the end to which it leads. And Sr. Lucia's words are the same way. We
will return to this point shortly:
So
the 'punishment from Heaven' which begins at this point is both the
taking away of the Papacy, which means the loss of faith, and the
establishment of the 'operation of error' which is not only the taking away of the Papacy.
The dragon of chapter twelve had ten horns, which means world-wide
influence - the spread of Russia''s errors throughout the world. The
'operation of error' is 'error made official'; it is accepted as fact,
it is policy, and it forms the 'narrative' (as it is called). When the
antipapacy was established, the Vatican became 'of the ten horns' as
well and together they make the 'operation of error'. Neither the
media alone nor the antichurch alone would be enough to constitute such
an operation, as they would contradict each other, unless there were an
essential common foundation for both - represented by the ten horns of
the dragon.
From beginning to end. The 'circular' elements consists of the breadth of the consequences of the punishment from Heaven. It began
with the antipapacy (although really the whole process of its
establishment should include Vatican '2': 1958-1965) but the book of
life is still sealed at that time (third seal opened in 1957; fourth, in
1965). This is where it is difficult. Sr. Lucia was not speaking from
the book of life perspective, where it begins, but where it ends must be seen from the book of life perspective.
St.
Paul helps us here: The antichrist comes in the end (but beginning with
its forerunners in 1958) 'in all seduction of iniquity to them that
perish' (to confirm them in iniquity, which they chose) 'because
they receive not the love of the truth, that they may be saved' (Knox
calls it 'that fellowship in the truth', as in becoming Catholic); which
here applies to both ends: in the beginning, for not believing in the
Church (nor Our Lady's message of Fatima), and in the end, for not
believing the truth in general (even the most basic truths) which errors will be confirmed by the antichrist, and those who 'refuse fellowship in the truth' in this instance is to be together with the antichrist, and consenting to be part of his empire, rather than believing the essential truth that he is not the pope, nor was his predecessors, and he is not of Christ, or of Heaven.
In
the meantime the seals will have been opened prior to the arrival of
the 'man of sin' proper. What we do not know is, during the whole time
in between, what effect the operation of error had with the chances of
many to remain in the book of life when it is unsealed. Here we are not
concerned with particular sins, or how many, or how serious, as that is
to be decided on the great day of Judgement. We believe that no one's
names, no matter what they have done beforehand, is affected until the
great day of Judgement. What is indicated by Apoc. 13:8 and 17:8 applies
to the generation which is alive at the time when the 'man of
sin' arrives. This is why those who overcame him are part of the first
resurrection (Apoc. 20:4-5) and others rose again but 'unto reproach, to
see it always' (Dan. 12:2).
We
think that Our Lady and Her seer Sr. Lucia spoke not from the book of
life perspective because that essential truth was still a secret, like
the Third Secret of Fatima (except the Third Secret of Fatima must not
speak of the book of life either). And Sr. Lucia was inspired to speak
her words because they applied to the world while the book of life is sealed, and thus could not avail anyone then, and also applies to the world after it is unsealed,
although she did not know that, but it remained true that the
'punishment from Heaven', the taking away of the papacy and the loss of
faith makes possible the coming of the 'man of sin' whom people might
accept if they do not accept what the Faith is as opposed to what
the 'man of sins' claims it to be. To make that distinction is crucial,
and at its heart is the love of the truth, or not; and this cannot be
emphasized enough. [98]
We do not think it absolutely necessary to continue with the rest of interview but a few more notes will suffice:
Sr.
Lucia said, "Father, how much time is there before 1960 arrives? It
will be very sad for everyone, not one person will rejoice at all if
beforehand the world does not pray and do penance. I am not able to give
any other details, because it is still a Secret. According to the will
of the Most Holy Virgin, only the Holy Father and the Bishop of Fatima
are permitted to know the Secret, but they have chosen to not know it so
that they would not be influenced. This is the third part of the
Message of Our Lady, which will remain secret until 1960".
This
is, of course, without reference to the book of life. If it were not
going to be unsealed, nothing afterwards could change this outlook. Pius
XII and the Bishop of Fatima chose not to read the third secret, which
seems surprising; but if he had lived to see 1960, Pius XII would have
to reveal it; but in this case, without the conversion of Russia (not
being consecrated together with the bishops, including the bishop of
Fatima, according to the exact request of the Blessed Virgin) he could
not, with the words of the angel, say "that time shall be no longer"
(Apoc. 10:6). So it was inevitable that he should not live to 1960. Some
say his death was brought about prematurely by those in the Vatican who
were preparing their coup; and this is because the consecration had not
been done as requested. It could not have come about any other
way, but it is as though each end completed the other in the middle, in a
manner of speaking. It is like one of those 'circular' things which
are, as it were, completed; the others we have mentioned are still
pending, and that is why they resemble circular logic. If there is a
better way of describing this we have not found it. [*98A]
Further
in the interview we see Sr. Lucia testify that the devil was attempting
to 'overcome souls consecrated to God' so that the souls of the
faithful are abandoned by their leaders, 'thereby the more easily will
he seize them'. This is the schism of 1958 in particular which was the
occasion for the papacy being taken away. We see afterwards that the
devil did not succeed in trapping the woman of Apocalypse chapter twelve
(the Church). But that had not happened yet, as well as the 'decisive
battle' spoken of by Sr. Lucia. She does not speak as though she knew
the outcome, except for the danger to souls. The danger to souls was
real, even with the book of life (which she did not appear to know about
in connection to the Secret) but it is this danger which makes possible
the book of life to be unsealed. It is a paradox. The thing is, the
other danger to souls would be that the book of life not be
unsealed. How does one describe this paradox ? It seems absurd even to
write it down. We do not know if Sr. Lucia said everything she was
thinking in this interview but she must have sensed something like it on
some level. We ought to remember that she transmitted everything
faithfully as the Blessed Virgin asked, and that also there were things
even Our Lady of Fatima did not say; but that is the meaning of the
secret which was not revealed, is it not ?
After
indicating the danger to souls if they remain obstinate in sin, and
that each individual is essentially on his own, without leadership, she
continues with the 'last times of the world':
The
last times: "Father, the Most Holy Virgin did not tell me that we are
in the last times of the world, but She made me understand this for
three reasons:"
She
did not have to tell Sr. Lucia that literally 'these are the last times
of the world' and, in a similar fashion, She did not have to say 'look
at Revelations if the third secret is not revealed' to find the truth.
Actually these are linked: The 'last times of the world', at this point,
had not yet begun with the second timeline, in which there is a
millennium which is not present in the first; it is still the 'last
times' but the end is not as close as it would have been otherwise.
Also, to indicate the book of Revelation in any way, as part of the
third secret, might have given it away; or, alternatively, it
would not be understood, as we believe the third secret cannot have any
reference to the book of life either. We have found that Sr. Lucia's third secret vision corresponds
with Apocalypse chapter fourteen, but only in context with everything
else. On the face of it, it looks like a vision of a martyrdom but
without knowing why or how they had got there.
The decisive battle:
"First...She told me that the devil is in the mood for engaging in a
decisive battle against the Virgin. And a decisive battle is the final
battle where one side will be victorious and the other side will suffer
defeat. Also, from now on we must choose sides. Either we are for God or
we are for the devil. There is no other possibility".
Here
we are going to emphasize the last part, as it seems to indicate what
we have said regarding St. Paul's words: One does not have to be
Catholic, in these times (particularly after the papacy is 'taken out of
the way') to be for God and against the devil. What is important is to
have a baseline, essential love of the truth, being truthful, and being
for what is true, even if one is not sure what that is. In this
way people may become aware of the contradiction between the antichrist
and the papacy. The principle of non-contradiction is a part of it;
hierarchy as opposed to 'equality/equalism' as the governing principle
of the universe, and more. It is well and good to say, as the communists
do, 'I am for world peace'; anybody can be for world peace. But if on
the quest for that world peace one is obliged to lie to everyone to
achieve it, then it is not true that it is peace; it is dominion, and
one which is subject to a lie. If everyone in the world is subject to
one person (who would then mediate all conflicts), that person is
'above' everyone else; but this is true only of Christ. Spiritually,
everyone in the world is subject to the Pope; but it is that office,
established by Christ, which is his position, not the man himself,
except that he be worthy of the office, by not being a heretic.
Last two remedies:
"The second reason is because She said to my cousins as well as to
myself, that God is giving two last remedies to the world. These are the
Holy Rosary and devotion to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. These are the
last two remedies which signify that there will be no others".
We
think these are the 'two wings of a great eagle' (Apoc. 12:14) and that
it is the same as the 'eagle flying', the fourth living creature (Apoc.
4:7) which is a metaphor for the dogma of the Assumption, defined seven
years before Sr. Lucia made this statement. When once one identifies
the four living creatures, it is obvious that the 'eagle flying' is the
Blessed Virgin Mary. If not Her then whom ? If not now then when ?
Last means:
"The third reason is because in the plans of Divine Providence, God
always, before He is about to chastise the world, exhausts all other
remedies. Now, when He sees that the world pays no attention whatsoever,
then as we say in our imperfect manner of speaking, He offers us with
‘certain fear’ the last means of salvation, His Most Holy Mother. It is
with ‘certain fear’ because if you despise and repulse this ultimate
means, we will not have any more forgiveness from Heaven, because we
will have committed a sin which the Gospel calls the sin against the
Holy Ghost. This sin consists of openly rejecting, with full knowledge
and consent, the salvation which He offers. Let us remember that Jesus
Christ is a very good Son and that He does not permit that we offend and
despise His Most Holy Mother, etc".
Footnotes
98.
As we think St. Joseph is the apparition to St. John in Apocalypse
chapter one, we think he hand a hand in arranging all of this. He had to
keep a secret as well, when his spouse Mary was found "with child, of
the Holy Ghost" (Matt. 1:18) and, "being a just man, and not willing
publicly to expose her, was minded to put her away privately", that is,
to make provision for Her well-being in a private manner (Matt. 1:19),
but then he was informed, in a dream, by "the Angel of the Lord". who is
probably St. Michael (Matt. 1:20), what had happened and why. Thus, he
did his duty before the Lord while keeping the secret.
98A.
Some might argue that Pius XII lost the papacy and that is why he did
not read the third secret or fulfill Our Lady's requests. In that case,
one might as well suspect his definition of the Assumption (1950) as
well. But it could have been afterwards. We argue that he did not
fall from the papacy and that is why he did not do the consecration. We
might also argue that if he did fall from the papacy, performed the
consecration, and Russia did not convert, that it is an impossible
scenario; i.e. Heaven would not allow it. The other impossible scenario
we have already said: That he would be able to reveal the third secret
without the conversion of Russia. Neither of them would fit either of
the two timelines. The whole thing would be chaotic. But the overall
point is we believe it was papal infallibility which the devil tried to
defeat and which led to the opening of the seals.
One other thing we should mention is this: In this
timeline, the second, without the book of life, it looks like a 'worst
case scenario' for souls, and it is, until the book is unsealed. But
that only means another 'worst case scenario' has arrived: The
antichrist, who comes to deceive all that they may lose their place in
the book of life. Up to that point, we cannot be sure how 'worst' the worst case scenario turned out for them. We believe there is a reason for this.
In
the other timeline, the first, the 'worst case scenario' begins after
the period of peace; the world had become Catholic (every nation, if not
everyone), but now the antichrist, as well as the false prophets, come to deceive people about the second coming. This last deception would be to lead people away from the Church in a way analogous to, in our timeline,
the antichrist leading people away from the book of life. But they are
not the same; it does not mean that, in the other timeline, the book of
life is opened and done another way. In the other timeline nothing of
the sort we have found for our own timeline, regarding the unsealing of
the book of life, is to be found, or would have been found. Again
we emphasize St. John's eating the 'little book open' which, though it
tasted sweet as honey, made his stomach bitter (Apoc. 10:10).
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